Democracy Moonshot (w/ Sami Sage)

The stakes are unprecedented, and according to our guest, Democracy is in Retrograde. Here to help us check the vibes this week is Sami Sage, co-founder of Betches and co-author of the new book, Democracy in Retrograde. 

We discuss the high vibes surrounding VP and presidential candidate, Kamala Harris, the new (accurate) attack line calling Trump/Vance and Republicans "weird," Biden's proposed SCOTUS reforms, and more! 

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Transcript

Glennis Meagher: [00:00:00] The stakes are unprecedented. 

Brian Derrick: Democracy is in retrograde. 

Glennis Meagher: And this is vibes only a podcast that promises to check the vibes of American politics each 

and every 

week. And the vibes this week, 

CBS News clip: there are fewer than 100 days until the 2024 election. And vice president Kamala Harris is off to a fast start as the likely democratic nominee raking in campaign cash and rising in the polls.

Brian Derrick: And 

Donald Trump: I want to be nice. They all say, I think he's changed. Something affected him. No, I haven't changed. Maybe I've gotten worse actually. 

Glennis Meagher: And 

CBS Mornings Clip: today president Biden is proposing major reforms affecting the presidency in the U S Supreme court. 

Brian Derrick: Here to check all the vibes this week with us is Sammy Sage, co founder of Betches and co author of the new book, Democracy in Retrograde.

Glennis Meagher: We'll keep Sammy around to play on it's giving pull up our group chats before leaving you with a good vibe. Let's get into it. 

Brian Derrick: Welcome to the pod, Sami. 

Sami Sage: Thank you. I feel like I got really lucky being on with you on this episode and things have just been feeling [00:01:00] just like a new world really. 

Brian Derrick: Absolutely.

Yeah. It's a perfect time to have you here, especially because you just released with our other dear friend, Emily Amick, your new book, Democracy in Retrograde. We've both read it and are huge fans. Tell us a little bit about like what inspired this at this moment in time. 

Sami Sage: Yeah. I mean, we wanted to create a guide guide.

Really explain to people and help them find a way that they can get involved in this election, but not just this election, in their civic life going forward. And to help them find a way that you can match your own skills, your own passions, your own time and resources to activities within the civic sphere that you might not have looked at as civic activities in the past.

So, You know, this is, you know, while this is obviously a really helpful book for the 2024 election, it's really about creating a bigger inner shift with yourself. So we're basically kind of leaning on this idea that getting [00:02:00] involved in civics and your community can be a form of self care. And not only that, but a cure to the loneliness epidemic by getting people out there, connecting with people who have similar values as they do and off our phones.

And seeing the ways that we can make a difference in this country, it doesn't have to be this like big grand, you know, I'm going to get Medicare for all past. It can be about improving the safety on your own street. It can be about like throwing a potluck with your neighbors so that you get to know each other more.

We see a vision for an America where, you know, turnout and people's regular involvement in politics and civics is much higher on a consistent basis. And the result. is that we should be passing legislation and having a country that looks a lot more like what we all want it to look like, which is a world with freedoms and, you know, not rolling back our repro rights and same sex marriage and, you know, ones where it's harder for people to get access to guns so we can go [00:03:00] about our lives safely and people can receive education and, you know, just creating an America where policies reflect what the people actually want.

Brian Derrick: Absolutely. Kamalamanon! It's a what? 

Glennis Meagher: Last week, we talked about the total vibe shift, and I just feel like we're climbing that mountain, climbing that vibe mountain into, I mean, you know, we have about a hundred days left, so we have to keep the energy going. But so far, so good. 

Sami Sage: Yeah, I feel so much better than I did two weeks ago.

It's really like a different world. And I was thinking about like, what will the actual impact on the election be? Because You know, well, first of all, I feel like I don't have to explain it to you guys because we're on vibes only. So you understand, but I was just thinking about like that voter who would have gone for Biden and they would have like dragged themselves there.

That person's now going to run there and they're going to bring like maybe three to 10 people with them. That is a huge difference. 

Brian Derrick: The vibes are snow day [00:04:00] mixed with no homework for the rest of the semester, mixed with we're going to Disneyland surprise reveal, mixed with a military reunion video. Like it's truly just like the internet is having a glow up positivity, hope filled week, and I'm absolutely thriving in it.

I feel like nothing captures the moment that we're in right now better than Vice President Kamala Harris's launch video. 

Kamala Harris Freedom Ad: In this election, we each face a question. What kind of country do we want to live in? There are some people who think we should be a country of chaos, of fear, of hate. But us? We choose something different.

We choose freedom.[00:05:00] 

Sami Sage: That has been my favorite song off Lemonade since Lemonade came out, I will say. So I was just like primed for the chills. Totally. I love, finally, that the Democrats have co opted freedom. And next we get the flag back. That's my goal. 

Glennis Meagher: Yes, and patriotism, like full stop. That ad, when I first saw it, I was like, Let's go.

I mean, I said this, you know, on on social media, and I am curious what you guys think, but it really does feel like everything has come together. And for the first time in a long time, like we are winning the culture war that we should have been winning for the last insert amount of years. And we're marrying that with The policy that we want to get passed.

I love that ad. I loved it. 

Sami Sage: I hate to make this about age, but I do feel that like when Biden stepped down, it opened up the whole bench. It was like a bottleneck had been released. It really felt like, oh, now it's not just her who seems to be. So perfectly like the standard bearer to me, like it [00:06:00] just feels so fitting.

And then through this Veepstakes, we're seeing like all these great elected officials in the party that, you know, I don't know how much people would necessarily have known about their records or how great of speakers they are. And it's like embarrassment of riches with exactly where my mind went. Those, those were the 

Brian Derrick: next words out of my mouth.

We're, we're going to be embarrassment of riches. I think that's spot on. I had a great meeting with someone this week looking to get involved in election. And I said, like, what issues really motivate you? And they said, every single thing that Kamala Harris. Said in her launch video, that is what I'm for.

And so the way that it really is capturing the moment and bringing people together, rebuilding this massive coalition that put Barack Obama in office, that put Joe Biden in office and like bringing young people into the fold in a very real way. Is so exciting. And the evidence is overwhelming. So as you just mentioned, we sort of have this [00:07:00] wealth of new democratic leaders, sort of barnstorming media outlets and digital they're everywhere.

New surrogates. We have over 200 million raised. In the last week alone, and over 66%, two thirds of those donations came from first time donors to the 2024 cycle. 

Glennis Meagher: Can you contextualize that a little bit? I saw you posted about that versus, you know, what Obama raised and that was like, whoa. 

Brian Derrick: Yeah, people throw around these huge numbers when we're talking about super packs and Elon Musk is gonna donate this and it all loses its meaning.

So I was trying to give people a benchmark for how significant 200 million in a week really is. It took Barack Obama about 14 months to raise his first 14 months of his campaign. He raised about 200 million and Kamala Harris did it in six days. 

Sami Sage: And he was sort of like the bar. for totally great fundraising 

Brian Derrick: and like the times are different and the economy is different the internet is different and all of these things there's but like [00:08:00] 60x right in terms of the the timeline is a remarkable thing that just shows how unified everyone has become behind her which is just really exciting to see 

Sami Sage: It almost feels like the three week path to getting her to actually be the nominee and everything that played out during that kind of primed people because I'm sure, at least I was thinking about this, I was like, I'm going to wait to donate until they see who the candidate is.

And, you know, something else that I think is really, you know, it's, it's the money. It's some of that money's coming from these zoom calls that Let's talk about those. Let's talk about the zoom calls. Let's have that conversation. You're getting people on conference calls on weekends for fun at 

Glennis Meagher: 8 p. m. Yeah, like 

Brian Derrick: hundreds of thousands.

Glennis Meagher: This is something, this was an organic digital organizing effort. The first one was Black Women for Kamala. They raised a ton of money and then there were some videos being like, okay, white women, everyone else, your [00:09:00] turn to show up. People showed it's been phenomenal. There's been white women for Kamala, the white dudes for Kamala black men immediately after black women.

I don't know the exact fundraising haul from these zooms, 

Brian Derrick: black women did, I believe about 1. 3 and then black men did like 1. 5. And then with much more lead time before, during and after the white women answer the call zoom did over 11 million. And we are just now at like 12 hours after the white dudes call, and that's raised at least 4 million.

Last time I checked crazy, there was an LGBT. It's a pay gap Kamala call that did, I believe, another 3 million. I'd have to double check that number. It's incredibly exciting to see. Again, all of this being organized outside of the campaign. This is not. The the Harris campaign like rallying people or like sort of like poking people prodding people to make people just doing it because they want to 

Glennis Meagher: right there.

They're energized. Can we talk [00:10:00] about how this is looking in the polls? Has anyone checked? I know, you know, vibes only we say the polls are broken, etcetera, etcetera. But being the masochist that we are, we still check them. the polls. How are the polls looking with all of this momentum? I 

Brian Derrick: mean, Sammy, I want, I want to get your take.

I would say polls are broken in the sense that we've talked about this before. They're not predictive and that people want them to tell them who's going to win and they're bad at that. But directionally, they're very helpful. They're helpful to track changes, especially large changes. And what we've seen in the last 10 days, Is definitely going to fall under the category of a large change.

So we have two simultaneous trends happening. Kamala Harris has jumped 12 points in her net favorability, meaning more people finding that they like her and fewer people finding that they don't like her. And then on the other side, Trump and Vance have had the weak from hell. And Vance just keeps getting worse and worse.

We have to talk about it. And they've seen Trump's dropped six [00:11:00] points in net favorability and Vance has dropped nine points in net nine. 

Glennis Meagher: Oh, Donald Trump is regretting his decision. I'll tell you that much. 

Sami Sage: There's a lot to talk about there. So I agree with you. I don't like really put any stock in polls.

Also, they're a lagging indicator. So if you take one, you know, whatever has happened has probably changed already. But what I do do is scroll on my phone a lot. And so I will read a lot of headlines about polls. And so I'll sort of take them in as like directionally, like, Oh, I'm reading a lot of headlines about, They're going in this direction or that direction for so and so because and then I'll sort of just form my impression of what's happening based on the whole of what I have read.

The Sammi vibe. The Sammi, yeah, like I, because again, like I don't really trust it and I don't, you know, because also I'm not going to stop and read on every poll, be like, how was this conducted? Was it a landline poll? Was it an online poll? Was it a thousand people? Was it whatever? So I really am just like, are we feeling good about the poll headlines I'm seeing?

Or are we feeling bad? And generally we've been [00:12:00] feeling very good. I think that we probably can understand the results based on the vibes ourselves, but it is good to have confirmation or, you know, data to back it up. 

Brian Derrick: For sure. We have a lot more tools at our disposal in order to like galvanize the base and win over swing voters, a lot more enthusiasm and resources.

But the fundamental challenge is still the same. It's going to come down to who can turn out the most. Voters. It's not about public opinion. It's not about a flash poll. It's about voting behavior. And we know that it's going to be close. Like we just know we know that it's going to be close and the stakes are high.

So ultimately it will come down to what people are willing to do. to turn out their friends and family and neighbors to vote. 

Sami Sage: I actually have a question though. Yeah. Do you think it's going to be close? Because I actually don't think it's going to be, if it were today, 

Brian Derrick: I don't think it 

Sami Sage: would be that, [00:13:00] that close, at least not in the popular vote.

Not that that matters, but I actually don't think it would be that close. I think what will happen. And this is my real concern that I'm, You know, I'm now on to my next problem to solve, not that I have any power to solve this, which is that the Republicans are actively planning and war gaming out how they are going to challenge the election in multiple ways.

They have multiple fronts that they're going to try to do challenging. They're going to be claiming voter fraud. They're going to be, you know, picture Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss. times 1000. That's tough. This is all my real concern. I would love to know who's working on that because I think it's that's actually like a very localized problems in every county and it's in specific polling places that they're going to be having these issues.

So that's my real concern. But again, I think that that's their only way of winning because I think it will be a route. 

Brian Derrick: Wow. There's so much to unpack there. Gladys, where do you fall on landslide versus close? 

Glennis Meagher: I never take [00:14:00] Being a true athlete at heart. I never 

Brian Derrick: take anything 

Glennis Meagher: for granted. She says she 

Brian Derrick: wants to be a Supreme Court Justice, but she acts like a politician, for sure.

Glennis Meagher: Yeah, hello! I'll never forget that I lost my high school political race, so I'm making amends for this. 

Brian Derrick: Traumatized. 

Glennis Meagher: I agree with Sammy that like the popular vote, like I feel like based on the momentum, we are going to have it, but that's just not how presidential elections are won. I just, I just don't take anything for granted.

Like I, we know that Republican controlled states want to disenfranchise people. Period. They're doing it. They want to claim voter fraud, Trump and his entire team of people already like laying the groundwork for that. I just don't want, especially because we have all this amazing momentum. I don't want to take it for granted to think that everyone's going to vote.

It's still going to be super important to relational organized and making sure that people have a voting plan and can get to the polls and actually do it and their vote is counted. So all of that to say, I, I believe that we can win, but I want to make sure everyone's doing the work to get there. 

Sami Sage: Oh, [00:15:00] yeah, I do want to clarify that my confidence is based on the assumptions that those are all in place because I think people understand, like the new line that Democrats have about how weird the Republicans are.

They're right. Finally, they're capitalizing on disgust instead of vague fear or generalities because that is really what is so gross and what should be so galvanizing. It's like, do you want the government in your medicine cabinet? Do you want them in your toilet? Do you want them under your sheets? And that is what these people literally want to do.

They want to be in your home adjudicating what you do in your fucking home. It's gross. It's perverted. It's disgusting. And I actually believe that most Americans will come out because it's Look at Kansas. Like, they just don't, people don't want this. They just don't. And we, we still have to organize and we still have to fight all the things that the Republicans will put in place.

But I believe the numbers are there and sentiments there. 

Brian Derrick: Definitely. I agree with both of you that I think. Absolutely [00:16:00] helps us in the popular vote, which might not be the thing that decides the presidency, but it will be the thing that decides control of the House. The popular vote really matters because it matters how many people show up in New York and California, where more than half of Republican held Biden districts are in the House of Representatives.

And we need people to show up in those blue states to flip the house. So it does matter. I do agree that popular vote has been definitely pushed in our favor. I think the Electoral College should do it. We'll still be incredibly close and that our clearest path is in the blue wall. And as you've both alluded to, there are already more than 80 ongoing cases of Republican suing about the election to try to block certain votes from counting, to try to get people off of voter rolls.

And to try to mess with the counts as well. So we already know that they're going to do everything they can to try to suppress the vote. And when it comes down to the electoral college, that could mean that it's that close that every single electoral vote matters.[00:17:00] 

Do you know Lee McGowan? The person people call politics girl on Instagram, she's the woman online always talking to us from her kitchen. I absolutely love her videos. And she's the host of the politics girl podcast, which is amazing. Every week, Lee deep dives into the issues affecting America and its people.

It's not the news. It's the big picture. What it means and why you should care. Lee breaks down complicated topics conversationally, so you can understand what's going on and be able to speak to it. There's no fancy talk, no big words. And she gets the best guests. Ultimately, the goal is for you to leave the podcast feeling smarter than when you came in.

Honestly, this is the stuff that matters. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Listen to the politics girl podcast on Spotify, Apple podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your pods. I know your time is limited, but if you spend it with Lee, she'll make sure it's worth it. Let's talk about what we have coming up.

So we originally were supposed to have a debate scheduled for early September, but now Trump seems to be a little 

Sami Sage: [00:18:00] scared. Oh, scaredy boy. Kamala says she's coming. 

Brian Derrick: Which I love. So yeah, Kamala just made a statement saying I'm showing up at the debate as it was scheduled and he's welcome to come debate me, which I love.

Yeah, 

Glennis Meagher: totally. He's like what he said anytime, anywhere, any place. And now he's like, actually, no, I mean, he's going to be obliterated. 

Sami Sage: I have a hot take. I think that she is better off if he chickens out and say more because I think that like, think about we're still a month, six weeks from when that will be this right now we're in a real high for her.

But there will be things that people are like, I don't like it. She did this. It'll be whatever. And then all you need, because TV is so specific. All you need is like one to two moments where he makes her come across as like, cool. It doesn't matter what the specific is, but there's a risk that she will read to certain voters as the thing that he wants her to read [00:19:00] as.

I don't know what that is. It could be aggressive. It could be sarcastic or like, just like openings for misogynoir to really come and like, like work their way in. Then you have two months after that, and then I think that's what could actually make the race closer. So I kind of hope that he like continues to check it out.

I think if they do show up together, she will destroy him on substance, on everything. But you just know there's always like those two moments that people are like, wow, she blah, blah blah. Like did that. And unless you have like a fly scenario which you could get, release thousands of flies. He released flies.

Yeah. it, it it like, unless you get that, you might end up with like a situation that plays into those stereotypes that hurts. The margins. 

Brian Derrick: I think it's a win win for her. I want a debate to happen. I love and appreciate President Biden. I am not speaking ill of him, but I think that the biggest glow up that we've now gotten in this candidate switch is that we have a candidate who I want to [00:20:00] see everywhere every day when she steps up to the microphone.

I am excited to hear what is going to come out of her mouth in the best way. And so I think we need to use that to our advantage every single day. all. chance that we get. And if he makes clear that he's not going to show up, I think that the viewership of whatever event takes place will be maybe a fifth of what it otherwise would.

A showdown between the two of them will be the most watched political event of history. The decade, 

Liz Minnella: and 

Brian Derrick: I believe in her. I like, I believe that she like, like you just said, I think she'll mop the floor with him because there's so much there. And she's so good at prosecuting the case. So I want to see it.

I'm ready. I have my popcorn popped. Trust me. 

Sami Sage: I want to see it too. If he doesn't show up. Then there is no debate, right? Like, it's not like she's gonna show up and do the empty chair thing. I mean, she could. 

Brian Derrick: Oh, I think they will. Oh, I absolutely think they would. I 100 percent think it's ABC, right? They would just turn it into a town hall and ask her [00:21:00] questions.

They're not going to turn down. You think they will? I absolutely think so. Oh, because they 

Sami Sage: want to have it. 

Brian Derrick: Yeah, I mean, I 

Sami Sage: think a town hall would be great total. I mean, yeah, if 

Brian Derrick: it were the bipartisan commission on presidential debates, then it'd be canceled. But this is not this is a private media event and all they want our eyeballs.

And so if she says she's showing up, they are going to produce this. content from it. I guarantee it. 

Sami Sage: Okay. I like that. So win either way. That makes me happy.

Glennis Meagher: So let's talk about Trump and what he's been up to. We've been so, uh, blessed with not having to think about him for the last two weeks, but he's been, um, Trump in. So post hit the mass shooting at his rally. He said that he was going to be all about unity, right? And then we saw. He actually isn't a changed 

Brian Derrick: man.

Glennis Meagher: Yeah. He said he was a changed man. That was at the RNC. But then he went on that like horrible RNC speech where he just went like left and right and all in between. It was just out [00:22:00] of control. Now he's saying 

Donald Trump: I want to be nice. They all say, I think he's changed. I think he's changed since two weeks ago.

Something affected him. No, I haven't changed. Maybe I've gotten worse. Actually. That's what Donald Trump's been up to. 

Glennis Meagher: And then I don't know if you guys see this clip of him? Like at the Christian rally, 

Donald Trump: Christians get out and vote just this time. You won't have to do it anymore. Four more years. You know what?

It'll be fixed. It'll be fine. You won't have to vote anymore. My beautiful Christians. I love you Christians. I'm a Christian. I love you. Get out. You got to get out and vote. The 

Sami Sage: weirdest part of this is I'm fairly sure he is Christian. 

Glennis Meagher: Well, he claims to 

Brian Derrick: be. Didn't 

Sami Sage: he say 

Glennis Meagher: I'm not Christian? 

Brian Derrick: He's selling Bibles.

He's a Bible salesman. 

Glennis Meagher: He's selling like 60 gold plated Bibles. Um, 

Brian Derrick: yes. First of all, we just have to say, like, that is textbook authoritarian behavior, right? To start to downplay [00:23:00] the Importance of elections. Lots of people on the right were claiming that there was like an overreaction to that. I had that clip texted to me within an hour, maybe a dozen times because that really broke through.

People were like, What the heck are you talking about? That's really concerning. He then went on Fox News and was given multiple opportunities pressed multiple times to clean up the comment to say, Are you saying that people Won't have to vote because you do such a good job. Are you saying that people aren't going to have the opportunity to vote?

Like he was specifically asked, I think, three separate times in a follow up interview would not clarify that he was saying what he meant by it. Like, like continue to just say, you won't have to vote again. You won't have to vote again. Christians don't normally vote. I'm telling them they have to vote this time, but that they don't have to vote again after.

It's concerning and just like all feeds into this narrative of him being anti democratic in policy, in rhetoric, in behavior, all of the above. 

Sami Sage: He is anti democratic and it [00:24:00] drives me a little insane, truly. That people pull punches on this. I have been saying since 2015, this man is going to try to be a dictator.

Then he went and tried to steal the election. He did January 6th. He is trying it again, and yet there's no accountability. Look, like I can't get hung up on that, but it drives me absolutely nuts when people say that. Oh, he didn't, he didn't really mean that. He didn't really say that. It's like, no one's a dictator till they're a dictator.

So why would you even risk it? Like, why would you even let this man get so close? There's a reason that broke through because people can hear it. Even people who are tuned out are like, Oh, that's a weird comment because we do vote every four years because they're so used to like democracy being the norm that people are not even thinking about how like, This election season is going to last between November 5th and January 20th.

There's this bias that it's all just going to be like normal. And so he must not really mean it like, yeah, he does look at what he does and has done and look at his proposed [00:25:00] policies or at least the people, the policies that are proposed by the people who are funding and backing him. So totally like, why would you even like skirt around this?

I don't get it, but people continue to. For sure. 

Glennis Meagher: And I want to talk about JD Vance. We talked about this two weeks ago. And why does Trump even need a new VP? Because four years ago, he was supporting the call to hang Mike Pence by a noose, like on January 6th. So it's like these people have this collective amnesia, Trump nesia, as we call it.

But I do get the sense that I, Trump is doubling down on his, you know, alt right messaging because By choosing J. D. Vance, he really was leaning into that because J. D. Vance is kind of this Peter Thiel poster child of like alt right ideology, Christian nationalism, you know, insert against X, Y, and Z minority group here.

Brian Derrick: With no qualifications. I just like to put that out there that if J. D. Vance were a woman, we would nonstop be talking about how he's not [00:26:00] qualified to be president. He wrote a book 

Glennis Meagher: that they sold to HBO and it was bad. Right. And then Peter Thiel, you saw his shining star as a conservative beacon and funded him, funded him all the way.

Sami Sage: Peter Thiel should stick to picking startups and not candidates. A hundred percent. J. D. Vance is one of the least charismatic people I've ever seen. Right. He tried to buy low and is not going to get to sell high. Right. Bad investment. 

Brian Derrick: Let's talk about it. He is kind of the ultimate meme stock where I feel like he was propped up by the, by one corner of the internet for a very brief amount of time.

And then as soon as we looked under the hood, everything collapsed. It turns out there is no engine. This is actually a total lemon. And now you're stuck with it. You already drove it off the lot. You bought it. Good luck because he actually is uniquely bad at being a vice presidential candidate. So far, his favorability started historically low and has continued to decline.

[00:27:00] He is out there directly countering his own messaging that the campaign is putting out. He was on the record saying that. The switch to Kamala Harris was like a sucker punch because it's going to be so much harder to run against her than Biden. He also has all of these emails coming out from his correspondence with a former friend who happens to be trans, where he's saying that Donald Trump was quote, just a bad man, a morally reprehensible human being.

He said, the more white people feel like voting for Trump, the more black people will suffer. I really believe that. That's a direct quote. He also has now said that people who voted for Donald Trump, many of them are racist and supported him for racist reasons. Like he is doing so much damage. 

Sami Sage: What's upsetting is that pre all of this JD Vance.

Actually, he has some legitimate opinions that I can get behind and instead he has, 

Glennis Meagher: right, like those that Brian just listed. 

Sami Sage: Yeah. And even in like, that's how he built this whole hillbilly [00:28:00] Elegy star is that he was like blaming the corruption and you know, totally elites, which is a real problem. And instead he just got right on it.

Got right on it. Did 

Glennis Meagher: you see me? This went really viral. 

JD Vance: We're effectively run in this country via the Democrats, via our corporate oligarchs, by a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they've made. And so they want to make the rest of the country miserable too.

And it's just a basic fact. You look at Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg. AOC, the entire future of the Democrats is controlled by people without children. 

Glennis Meagher: And that people who have children should have additional votes for their children. Children can't vote, but the parents can control the child. The dad decides.

Brian Derrick: Right. Yup. 

Glennis Meagher: What? 

Brian Derrick: Yeah. He also seems to not understand what the child tax credit is and claims that he wants like parents to have this sort of different tax structure, which. 

Kamala Harris Freedom Ad: I 

Brian Derrick: [00:29:00] think he's a weird guy to begin with, but he is someone who has decided it is worth it to trade in all integrity for power. And so that's why we're getting all of this crazy flip flopping positions all over the map and this extreme swing to the far, far alt right, because that's just where he could find a fan base and money and power.

Sami Sage: Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty well reported that this pick was a pick that they made out of confidence when they thought that they were running against Joe Biden and going to win. What is just a side note sidebar on that? It's like, they act like they were blindsided by the choice of Kamala Harris when there was a three week public conversation about whether.

Joe Biden would stay on the ticket and who he would be replaced by. And you would think someone might consider, Oh, it'll probably be the vice president. They replace him with yet. They were blindsided as if this wasn't obvious. Okay. That's just stupid. Number one. And then there's a lot [00:30:00] of reporting that it really was like money and you know, Don jr and Eric and Peter Musk who were pushing for this.

And I think what, you know, there are different factions behind that are trying to use Donald Trump as like their face to achieve their ends. You know, we know the products, right? 25 people are doing this. We know the technocrats and Peter Thiel people are doing this, but if anything, this just shows that.

Peter Musk are too stupid to run anything because the guy they pick can't even beat the allegations that he fucked a couch. Like it's literally like pick someone else. Like you can't even pick the right guy. Why should you be in charge of anything? 

Glennis Meagher: It's literally a political science 101 is called charismatic legitimacy and most politicians have to have it and if they do not have it, they will fail.

And this is like case study a of like JD Vans having no charismatic legitimacy and therefore his. His stock is tanking. I mean, for the first time in a long time, I feel like Dems are not like, [00:31:00] you know, the Michelle Obama saying when they go high, we go higher. What was it? Or when they go low, when they go low, we go high.

When we go low, they go whatever the, whatever the saying is, which I never really agreed with. I was like, no, let's get 'em. And we're getting them. We're getting them. We're not even going 

Sami Sage: that low. We're we're, 

Glennis Meagher: I know you're right. We're not that we're going 

Sami Sage: low. We're like really not even going low. We're literally calling balls and strikes and their strikes are just.

so far out of the range of normal that you have to call it as crazy as it is, 

Brian Derrick: right? Yeah, let's let's be clear. Going low is paying someone to steal someone's diary and try to publish embarrassing information as 

Sami Sage: they did. 

Brian Derrick: Going low is like posting someone's nudes. All over the internet and printing them out and bringing them into the House of Representatives.

Like, they are disgusting when they go low. Pouring 

Sami Sage: water in someone's, in someone's, uh, jacket, bag, like, like multiple times, like also happened. Even the lowest thing, which was the couch rumor, was a joke. That accidentally [00:32:00] took off

Brian Derrick: while they are trying to figure out which sectional is their favorite. We have also put forth a revolutionary generational much needed plan for the Supreme Court, which we've discussed many times on the pod has. sort of spiraled in the last couple of years. So we have this new proposal from Biden. It includes three core components.

One is term limits for the Supreme Court would be capped at 18 years, which would give each president two appointments in a four year term. The next is a direct response to the immunity decision that came from the Supreme Court, which all constitutional scholars have said was absolutely outrageous. And that would say that the president is not above the law.

Full stop. And the last piece is finally a binding and enforceable ethics code for Supreme Court justices to bring that in line with all other federal judges who should be subject to some kind of [00:33:00] standard as to their behavior, what gifts they can accept to avoid bribes, other perception of corruption, et cetera.

Glennis Meagher: I'm looking at you, Clarence Thomas. 

Brian Derrick: No more trips to the lodge. 

Glennis Meagher: Yeah. 

Brian Derrick: How are we feeling about Biden's? SCOTUS reform plan that he announced this week. 

Sami Sage: I mean, I love that he did it. I wish he had done it before. Like, why didn't we do this earlier? These things are fairly obvious. My question, okay, this is like a real technical question.

Why is no one pointing out that it is in the Constitution that you can't have term limits on these justices? So, like, why present that? Like, I feel like if I were making the recommendations, I would have said that they should add more justices. 

Brian Derrick: Expanding the court. Would be the more popular version of this potentially, especially like among the base, but from where I'm sitting, there are two different paths and one is to try to course correct what has gone wrong in the last couple of years.

And that would be by expanding the court, right? Republicans stole seats on the Supreme Court outright, [00:34:00] and yeah. You can fix that by expanding the court. But in order to fix the incentive structures which broke the court in the first place, we actually really need like a constitutional amendment in my opinion.

Because right now the incentives say We need to add more younger, more extreme justices and expanding the court does not fix that, right? Because then Republicans get control of the Senate and presidency again, and then they're incentivized to expand it again. And so a constitutional amendment would put in place and say, we are no longer going to put in place a system that would incentivize someone to appoint a radicalized preteen to the Supreme Court, which is what the current system would tell us is the most strategic thing to do so that they can sit on the court for 60 years.

That's ridiculous, and the only thing that can fix that would be some kind of term limit amendment. 

Sami Sage: Right. I mean, the code of conduct I think is the best part. I again question [00:35:00] why every federal judge except the Supreme Court is held to a standard and yet these people are like so important that they are not held to a standard.

That to me seems ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And like, I wonder if it might have been more effective and not that this isn't effective, but I don't think this is going to be necessarily like what ultimately happens necessarily. Like, what about like a broader government ethics project that also includes bans on stock trading for members of Congress?

Right. Like I think there needs to be overall. To your point about incentives, Brian, like there needs to be incentives taken out of the system that make it easier for elected officials to be corrupt, to A, incentivize them to get into office so that they can personally benefit, 

Glennis Meagher: and 

Sami Sage: B, that once they're there, that they can actually personally benefit.

And it's not just like the Supreme Court. There's a reason that like Congress is not. Regulating the court. And it's because all these people's faiths are tied [00:36:00] up in each other and their personal interests are tied up in each other. And it's bigger than just the court. It's about like these bribes and the fact that officials are so like, how did Bob Menendez get away with doing what he was doing for so 

Glennis Meagher: long?

The words out of my mouth, gold bars and Mercedes Benz from the country of Egypt. Like, I think, I think we got to start a new shared notes because this is the next, like first goal is getting Kamala Harris elected. Second goal, it's like mass democratic ethics reform. What 

Brian Derrick: you're sharing here, I think is really important and exciting, which is That sometimes the small things can feel impossible to get done.

And so thinking about a constitutional amendment can feel like overwhelming. That feels so out of the realm of what's possible in this moment. But sometimes that's the kind of thinking that it takes to build a coalition large enough to really accomplish something incredible. And that's what I'm thinking about as like [00:37:00] our democracy moonshot right of like, is this the start of a larger decade long sort of push to put some of these pieces in place that have really chipped away at the public's confidence in our democracy?

How do we really think? bigger like JFK level engagement to put forth something that actually pass a constitutional amendment by 2035. Like, how do we do that? Let's do that. 

Sami Sage: I love that you're calling it a democracy moonshot, Glenis. Maybe, maybe that's what we should name our note. Yeah. And, and to your, like, that I think was what I think when Biden stepped aside, what the relief I felt was.

Like, Not just opening up this, this bottleneck to this Democratic bench, but the ideas that that bench has, which are aligned with what you're saying, and it's like we can save democracy this election, but then we can maybe avoid having these dire every two to four year elections that it's like your whole life is hanging in the [00:38:00] balance by putting things in place that will shore up the system and prevent it from backsliding into this current situation.

Like imagine if we could have two really solid candidates to choose from in every presidential election and it doesn't feel like if this guy gets in, I could die. Right. 

Glennis Meagher: Yeah. Well, you heard it here first, Fives Only listeners, Democracy Moonshot. Stay tuned for more. For our plans of how the three of us are going to build our democracy, giving it's giving.

We have a fun clip from someone I think we all know, Liz Minnella. She's a mob. She's an activist. She's part of the Demfluencer community. And she also runs Chicago Women for Harris, who was on NewsNation, Brian's favorite channel. 

NewNation: I'm trying to think one, the term sugar high, right? I'm trying to think of a good term.

That's one of the terms to use people. So all this is, you know, this is going to wear off and, you know, inevitably campaigns change, stories change. But what about the concern about excitement wearing off, um, before, you [00:39:00] know, November less? 

Liz Minnella: Yeah, I'm not concerned about it. Your previous guests use the term shiny new objects.

She's not shiny. She's not new and she's not an object. She's been an elected official in this country for 20 years. She's earned where she has gotten. She's an amazing candidate. And what happened this last week, it is just the first step. This is the tip of the iceberg. Great 

Sami Sage: job, Liz. She's killing it in general.

So shout out to Liz. But that was also a great quote. I think people have this really strong desire to like objectify maybe is the word, but literally that's what they were doing. They were objective personify her. Yeah. And she is a force and I look forward to her. proving them wrong. 

Brian Derrick: It's giving thank you next like done and dusted.

She absolutely sent him packing. He's like, Oh, this is gonna go away. They're just like excitable fan girls. No, do not try to belittle what's happening. It's a massive movement. It's just now getting started. And we're [00:40:00] coming for your seats, period. 

Glennis Meagher: Yeah, it's giving Mike drop. Liz was like, bye.

Hi, listeners. We wanted to loop you all in on a podcast from our friends at Girl on the Gov that's focused on humanizing candidates and elected officials through candid combos. Not so shockingly, the podcast is named Girl on the Gov, the podcast, and it's hosted by Sammy Cantor, the blonde, and Maddie Medved, the brunette, who hand the mic to movers and shakers every Wednesday to discuss politics, pop culture, and everything else in between from their POV.

It's a little bit Alexis. Kidding. But it is a little bit. Keeping up with the candidates meets getting to know who elected officials are from their off hours and alongside digestible policy analysis to keep you informed on the latest. Tune into episodes with rep Colin Allred, who is looking to boot Ted Cruz from a job.

Will Rollins, who's running to flip a seat in Southern California and almost 250 other episodes anywhere and everywhere you get your podcasts and watch the show on YouTube. Group [00:41:00] chat. So Sammy, every week we talk about what's going on in our group chats. What's going on in your group chat? 

Sami Sage: I am just sending everybody every clip I see of Tim Walz, Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota, who is the hidden gem of the party.

And he is my personal preference for VP pick. And. You know, we, I could give you, you know, Oh, he has a great progressive resume. He's in a tougher state, you know, he's flipped red seats, he's held seats, but I think the best argument for why he should be VP is that no one knew that he should be VP until like the other day when it was a full grassroots rise that he took.

And I say that because, you know, we actually wrote about this. in the book in the leader section that the people who it sort of feels like the people who are always vying for power. The hardest are the ones who should not have it because of how hard they're buying people who do not like power max. And I think we see this with like the beep stakes.

It's like, not everyone needs to be the VP or the president just because they're [00:42:00] good at their role or they're a great messenger. Like not. Everyone needs to be the president. You can make a huge difference if you're not the president. And I think we see like, you know, every politician sort of wants to get there.

But when I see someone who doesn't really want to get there, that's not like their goal. They're not throwing their hat in the ring like so persistently. That is something that I'm like, okay, you're here for the work. You're not here for the title. And I find that that is the epitome of the character that a leader should have.

So I am all in for Tim Walls because of his humility. And the fact that he was not like putting himself in the ring. 

Brian Derrick: Yeah, my group chat has been strongly Veepstakes, for sure. People, Like, basically, with Roy Cooper dropping out, it's now down to Shapiro, Kelly, Buttigieg, Bashir, Walls. With there being clear top tier and sort of second tier picks within that group, I agree.

Walls has his, like, stock rising at the right moment. It seems to be in high [00:43:00] demand from many corners of the interwebs and the party. So I have no qualms with, with what you shared. I think that that's right. 

Glennis Meagher: I'll say I was not aware of his charismatic legitimacy until like four days ago when people were messaging me like these viral clips of him.

He just, Speak so authentically and he speaks like one of us and it's so, it's so refreshing. So he rules. I'm down with Tim Walz. I'm also down with the United States of America for the next two weeks because I am an Olympics head. It is all day every day. My friends have spreadsheets going. It's crazy.

What's your favorite? Four. I can't choose favorites. Um, what are your top three? I love. Olympic. Gymnastics. I love track and field. We have the fastest man and woman in the world right now running for us. The opening ceremony was amazing. I don't know if you guys saw it. Celine Dion, she performed. 

Sami Sage: I saw parts of it and I saw the controversy about it.

I saw people were mad about there's a 

Glennis Meagher: threesome and French 

Sami Sage: vibes. It's like it's in France. They let them do their art. 

Glennis Meagher: Yeah. Anyway, if any vibes only listeners are into the Olympics, you [00:44:00] can DM me. I am tapped and we had a really big moment yesterday. The U S men's gymnastics team for the first time since 2008 meddled.

And it literally came down to one guy, Steve. He's a pommel horse specialist, which means he was only chosen for the team. The pommel horse is like 

Brian Derrick: that thing. It looks like a bull, like a automated bull in a bar in Texas. 

Glennis Meagher: Yeah, exactly. And I learned so much about it. And the pressure of this one individual, the pressure of the country was on his very strong shoulders because pommel horse is all shoulders and he delivered.

He had one job and he did it and we got the bronze. So I'm thrilled about that. I was sleeping in all the memes. 

Sami Sage: until he did pommel horse. Okay. I love how I can deduce what happened just from memes. 

Glennis Meagher: Yeah, exactly. And he anyway, the Olympics, I'm all day every day thinking about them. I'm rooting for America.

I hope you two are as well. Yeah, 

Brian Derrick: I'm always Team America, but I have not seen a single [00:45:00] event yet. 

Glennis Meagher: Okay, I have a task that I will be messaging you guys. Things you need to know. 

Brian Derrick: Yeah. I want to watch like 

Glennis Meagher: diving. You're 

Sami Sage: actually making me crave it. 

Glennis Meagher: And the last thing, uh, is the JD Vance song. This has been floating around a lot.

JD Vance: I'm a never Trump guy. I'm a never Trump guy. I'm a never Trump guy. I never liked him. I'm a never Trump guy. I'm a never Trump guy. I'm a never Trump guy. 

Glennis Meagher: For those who don't know, that's a direct quote from JD Vance. That the internet took and remixed and is now going viral. So JD Vance, we see you, we have the receipts and we are going to troll you.

Brian Derrick: I love it.

Sammy, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for opening up your group chat. And yeah, thank you for sharing so much great insight with us today. 

Sami Sage: Thank you for having me. This was so much fun. I love the listeners and sending everyone good vibes only. 

Brian Derrick: Good vibes only. All right, GG. We're going to send them off with a good vibe, which is.

A new report that we got in from Politico that shows that Democratic [00:46:00] candidates in the House of Representatives are crushing it in our mission to flip the House this November. Whether Vice President Kamala Harris wins or not, the House is a must win in order to pass our agenda or to block Trump's agenda if, God forbid, he wins.

wins the election. So this is super exciting because it shows that people are really investing in these down ballot races. When I talked to Politico for this piece, I really made clear that Democratic donors are showing their enthusiasm by supporting these candidates and are giving way more strategically than we've seen in past elections.

So a rising tide lifts all boats and we're excited to hop on the Kamala train to flip the house. 

Glennis Meagher: Let's go. Those are the vibes this week. Thanks for listening. Two things to not. Don't forget, go pick up a copy of Democracy in Retrograde by our guest, Sammy Sage, and our past guest and friend of the pod, Emily Amick, aka Emily in your phone.

And go vote for Vibes Only at podcastawards. com so that you can say that your [00:47:00] favorite podcast is a People's Choice winner, lol. Have a nice week. Catch you next time. 

Brian Derrick: Vibes Only is a production of Courier, a civic media company that protects and strengthens our democracy through credible, fact based media.

and seeks to create a more informed, engaged, and representative America. Vibes Only is produced by Devin Maroney, with support from couriers Kyle Tharp, Arcee D'Amezzo, and Daniel Strasburger. Tara McGowan is founder and publisher of Courier.